Monday, July 17, 2006

When Kos is right...

Today, I find myself in agreement with Kos on a rather major issue - the Israel/Palestine/Lebanon conflict which is currently mired in a downward spiral. I'll just quote Kos here:

I grew up in a war zone. And there was one clear lesson I learned -- there will never be peace unless both sides get tired of the fighting and start seeking an alternative.

It's clear that in the Middle East, no one is sick of the fighting. They have centuries of grudges to resolve, and will continue fighting until they can get over them. And considering that they obviously have no interest in "getting over them", we're stuck with a war that will not end in any forseable future. It doesn't matter what we bloggers say. It doesn't matter what the President of the United States says. Or the United Nations. Or the usual bloviating gasbag pundits.

When two sides are this dead-set on killing each other, very little can get in the way.

And I, for one, sure as heck have no desire to get sucked into that no-win situation. I just hope that war-fatigue sets in at some point.
Well said, Mr. Zuniga.

This conflict seems to have taken on a life of its own, with both sides either unwilling or unable (or both) to halt its continuation and, recently, its escalation. This is the most volatile region in the world, and Israel remains the flashpoint. If it all comes back to Iraq here, it all comes back to Israel and Palestine there.

And from Bush and Blair, to Kos and the blogosphere, and even Olmert and Abbas - everyone appears depressingly powerless to stop it.

21 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So Kos might have a point.

Comes to proves: Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds an accorn.

7/17/2006 10:13 PM  
Blogger SeedFreak said...

A lot of people have that view anon, even any anon poster might agree.

It is a shame to see two peoples who have differing ideologies destroy the population with their poisonous hatred, one rains down terror, one rains down bombs. The war is urged on by those who only profit by it--profit by position, profit by influence or profit by financial gain. After the terror and bombings subside all that is left is a broken and dispirated population.

7/18/2006 4:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what you won't see on Kos-

from politicalwire.com:

In Connecticut, Lamont Relies on Out-of-State Support
Connecticut U.S. Senate candidate Ned Lamont (D), who bases his primary challenge to Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) on claims he's "out of touch" with state Democrats, collected 70% of his campaign contributions from non-residents, the Stamford Advocate reports.

Lamont supports include "celebrities such as Barbra Streisand to an ex-Baywatch-lifeguard-turned-activist to a California strawberry farmer and craft-store owner in Illinois."

7/18/2006 7:33 AM  
Blogger LiebermanForLieberman said...

What you won't see on the Lieberman site:

Lieberman relies on out-of-state support even more than Lamont.

I believe that 70% of Lamont's support is from out-of-state, whereas Lieberman's out-of-state support is 74%

Lamont's support also includes the great progressive Paul Newman, so it's becoming increasingly clear that Lieberman is out of touch with CT progressives.

7/18/2006 7:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

seedfreak: it's also a shame that lieberman has upped the ante so much by helping to arm israel. israel bristles with the best american weaponry money can buy. the result is a lot of dead lebanese/palestinians and we are all complicit in that killing.

i don't favor one side or the other, and that's my point. ww need to stay out of this eternal blood feud. arming one side with weapons of mass destruction is not an acceptable policy or consistent with our values. we need change in dc.

7/18/2006 7:45 AM  
Blogger LiebermanForLieberman said...

"Lieberman is happiest when he's playing a Fox News Democrat"

Terrific LA Times article, have a look:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-black18jul18,0,7362225.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

7/18/2006 7:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When did the US ever give Israel WMD? That's a blatant and terrible lie. The vast majority of Israeli weaponry are designed and manufactured in Israel.

Israeli weapon imports from the US are almost entirely limited to small arms, and certainly do not include any WMD materials.

7/18/2006 7:54 AM  
Blogger SeedFreak said...

I'm out of touch with Paul Newman too--but I remain a Centrist. He does market good salad dressing for charity, so not all is a loss there. Is viewing Slapshot is a dialogue prerequisite for Lamonistas? It seems likely.

Proportionately, with fundraising, when you deduct Lamont's own contributions, how much has he raised through donation, in state?

And how much has Joe raised, in state?

I think that there must be at least 2.5 million reasons why the Pro-Expletives accepted Lamont as their guy for this Fall. Without his bucks to fund the campaign Kos and the TinfFoil KapKrew surely would have to cough up that money themselves.

7/18/2006 7:55 AM  
Anonymous CentristDem said...

Wow...you Lamontistas can't help but politicize everything, even this conflict.

You should seriously be ashamed of yourselves for trying to blame the escalation of this conflict even partially on Joe Lieberman.

7/18/2006 7:56 AM  
Blogger LiebermanForLieberman said...

Woohoo, we've turned another corner in Senator Leiberman's favorite war:

"Dozens of gunmen suspected of being Sunni Arabs went on a rampage through a mostly Shiite market area in the town of Mahmudiya on Monday, killing at least 48 civilians and wounding scores, police officials said. Many of the attackers, who fired assault rifles, heavy machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades, wore the uniforms of the Iraqi security forces. “You can’t tell your friend from your enemy,” an Iraqi Army officer said as Iraqi troops moved in."

Link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/world/middleeast/18iraq.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Senator Lieberman's stay-and-pray Iraq strategy is a disaster for America

7/18/2006 8:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon: if we aren't arming israel, why are the israelis streaking over lebanon today in f-16's? also, it is well-known that the israel nuke weapon program received help from the americans on several occasions. you can do the research on this if you're interested.

7/18/2006 8:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LIEBERMANFORLIEBERMAN: Wow that is some "progress". I wonder if those gunmen all have cellphones like Joe said...

7/18/2006 8:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I should have mentioned that in terms of its air force, Israel does not manufacture the jets over there. But the US certainly does not supply them.

You see there's the company called Lockheed. And Israel has this thing called "money." Israel used this "money" to buy planes from "Lockheed" after the Israelis themselves had designed them, since Israelis doesn't have the facilities to build the planes. These planes, the F-16I Sufas, are becoming the mainstay of the Israeli military.

While Lockheed does receive contracts from the US government for US military purchases, the projects for the Israeli military were funded by the Israeli government with their "money."

These are the F-16s you saw the Israeli military flying. They were paid for by Israel. The US did not arm them.

7/18/2006 8:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All the evidence I've ever seen says that it was France and Britain who got Israel's nuke program jump-started. And after it got jump-started, they certainly would not have needed US help to continue it.

7/18/2006 8:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon: the word is that the israelis procured some of their plutonium from los alamos. this was about 20 years ago. what is less clear is how much help they got from the americans in that procurement, or what form that help took.

7/18/2006 8:42 AM  
Blogger LiebermanForLieberman said...

Wow - is Lieberman really going to try to Swift-Boat(tm) Lamont?

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/17/your-daily-ned-5/

Well, how positively Rovian. I think it's safe to say we all hope that Joe will not stoop to this level.

7/18/2006 8:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous: To be fair, you should point out that a lot of Israel's "money" takes the form of "American aide", which is what they in turn use to buy "American weapons". This is a problem and why the poster seems to think a change is needed.

7/18/2006 8:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how'd the lamont supporters bring this debate to attacking israel?!
hmmm

7/18/2006 9:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sorry, i don't think there are any pro-lamont people here. but there do seem to be some anti-leiberman people.

7/18/2006 9:33 AM  
Anonymous CentristDem said...

How like liebermanforlieberman to post speculation and claim it to be fact.

And to think that I was accused of being a troll on Kos...

7/18/2006 10:52 AM  
Anonymous Mike said...

Rule of thumb: Kos is NEVER right. And he's not right here. This is no "cycle of violence." It is a direct line of hate -- from Islamic Fundamentalists to all non-believers.

Israel, complying with UN Resolutions, withdrew from Lebanon in 2000. Hezbollah rained Katusha rockets on Israeli population centers, then crossed the border to kill and kidnap Israeli border patrols. Israel responded as any other country would. To suggest that the "two sides are dead-set on killing each other" is to betray a total ignorance of the Israeli public. And to suggest that Hezbollah is acting in sympathy with the Palestinians is to betray a total ignorance of the stated aims of Islamic Fundamentalists generally that group in particular.

7/18/2006 12:54 PM  

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